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David
Aug-14-2004, 11:02 GMT
IP:
Germany

Nah. Kuno you were right all along. Gospel? Of course it´s not. If it was, then it would have been sung as a gospel. It´s a ballad. Just because Paul got some of the idea after visiting a gospel church doesn´t make it a gospel.

A cat born in a dog kennel is still a cat.

Kuno
Aug-14-2004, 11:14 GMT
IP:
Switzerland

Exactly my opinion, thanks David.

Bluesmoke
Aug-14-2004, 11:53 GMT
IP:
Italy

I give up. Have it your way. I truly would like to see paul´s face if you walked up to him telling him that BOTW is not a gospel and that he´s wrong.

I also didn´t wanto to get into this because it sounds pompous but I will now: As you can see from the post I was enthusiastic about Aretha´s cover while Kuno and others diregarded it - well it turns out that a person who´s musicianship we all depply admire, Mr. Simon, thinks the same way I do. Shouldn´t this make you think that I know what I´m saying?
Another aspect is that the fact that Paul likes Aretha´s version the best is a very good hint that the song is a gospel because aretha´s version is the closest to the SPIRIT and MOOD and HARMONY of the original!
P.s. I probably shouldn´t waste my time like this - I should´ve realized that I´m dealing with someone who´s first post was "oh you say so only because Paul says so!" even though if he had read the post he would´ve realized that this was total nonsense. Well- the nonsense goes on...

Bluesmoke
Aug-14-2004, 11:56 GMT
IP:
Italy

I give up. Have it your way. I truly would like to see paul´s face if you walked up to him telling him that BOTW is not a gospel and that he´s wrong.

I also didn´t wanto to get into this because it sounds pompous but I will now: As you can see from the post I was enthusiastic about Aretha´s cover while Kuno and others diregarded it - well it turns out that a person who´s musicianship we all depply admire, Mr. Simon, thinks the same way I do. Shouldn´t this make you think that I know what I´m saying?
Another aspect is that the fact that Paul likes Aretha´s version the best is a very good hint that the song is a gospel because aretha´s version is the closest to the SPIRIT and MOOD and HARMONY of the original!
P.s. I probably shouldn´t waste my time like this - I should´ve realized that I´m dealing with someone who´s first post was "oh you say so only because Paul says so!" even though if he had read the post he would´ve realized that this was total nonsense. Well- the nonsense goes on...

Bluesmoke
Aug-14-2004, 12:07 GMT
IP:
Italy

And David, I tried to ignore you but now it´s too much.
First nonsense:"Amazing Grace in gospel....ok." What do you mean OK!?!? If you are trying to say that Amazing Grace is NOT ORIGINALLY a GOSPEL well please seek profesional help. Maybe you think "Sweet Home Chicago" is a Polka?
Second nonsense: "It´s already a long song. When the Gospelites get to it, like the Jessy Dixon singers etc the bloody song seems to go on forever and simply never end!! " What´s that got to do with ANYTHING!? Where did you read that Gospels are long!? And also: what has length got to do with how good a song is!?
Guys don´t get me wrong, I don´t want to come after you until you admit you´re wrong, I couldn´t care less. This is probably as far as I´ll go.
Cecilia is a jazz song ; Art has got a voice good for hard metal and...Paul´s songwriting SUCKS!
(If you can yap nonsense I think I can too!)

JEC
Aug-15-2004, 02:48 GMT
IP:
USA - United Staates America

Bluesmoke, music is completely a matter of opinion, so different people are going to think different things about different songs. People dispute over whether certain artists are rock or pop, so they can also dispute over whether a certain song is a gospel or a ballad. Neither view is necessarily wrong.

Wim
Aug-15-2004, 08:08 GMT
IP:
Netherlands

Paul wrote the song as a gospel. (´Gospel´ is used for a music style). On his concerts in the beginning of the seventies he sung it withthe Jessie Dixon Singers in the way he originaly wanted to have the song, he said himself: with the real gospel sound. Just like ´Loves Me Like A Rock´ (a real gospel tune). That´s the way it is. If you prefer the way it was recorded for the BOTW record - that is a different subject.

Kuno
Aug-15-2004, 08:26 GMT
IP:
Switzerland

We are talking about how it was recorded for the album.
Paul said that he wrote it as a gospel, or maybe he just wanted to. But the result on the album just seems not like a gospel to me.

Bluesmoke
Aug-15-2004, 11:35 GMT
IP:
Italy

If you think music theory is an opinion well then Cecilia is a jazz track.
Kuno:"Paul said that he wrote it as a gospel...(but it)just seems not like a gospel to me." As I said, you think you know better than Paul. Maybe you also know what his favourite color is, maybe teach him that too someday...

Kuno
Aug-15-2004, 15:07 GMT
IP:
Switzerland

So, music theory is not an opinion...so please explain me, why this is a gospel song.
But no, all you can say is: Paul wanted to write a gospel song, and so it has to be one !

If I remember correctly, Paul said in this interview that we wanted to write a gospel song. That doesn´t mean that the result on the album is a gospel. We all know that Paul sings and plays it (solo) different than the official version on the album. Even the lyrics were different at the beginning of the writing process.


If you ask 100 people if BOTW is a gospel song, then 95 people would say no. Because it just don´t sound like a typical gospel song. I guess you agree with that.

So, if it is -against my expections- a gospel, then tell me why. And just "Paul said so" doesn´t count. Come up now with your music theory....

Bluesmoke
Aug-15-2004, 16:56 GMT
IP:
Italy

I gave the answer to this question already 3 posts ago. Go read it. And from know on if you have to say something read the post first. It´s not the first time you say something which you shouldn´t have said if you had read the post.

Wim
Aug-15-2004, 17:06 GMT
IP:
Netherlands

Paul wrote a gospel song and he wanted it performed as he did with the Jessie Dixon Singers. But in the studio proces with Art and Roy Halee it became the song we all know so very well. And that is not the typical gospel song he had in mind.

Wim
Aug-15-2004, 17:12 GMT
IP:
Netherlands

But please, take it easy on a subject like this. In no time we have ´some bloody purple clothes that are messing up the lobby floor´...

Bluesmoke
Aug-15-2004, 17:30 GMT
IP:
Italy

Guys, if Paul sings Amazing Grace...it´s STILL a gospel song.
I think I´m gonna leave it here, I´m sick of this. Peace.

hanjo
Aug-15-2004, 18:28 GMT
IP:
Germany

I never thought, I´d write on this topic, but ... well, I am just listening to different versions of BOTW, one after another.

I was always trying to figure out what kind of song BOTW was, clearly not the usual folk rock stuff S&G used to do, sorry, unusual folk rock stuff, of course.

Only when I heard the Live Rhymin´-CD with the JDS, I thought: So that´s what it is. A gospel song. Or a gospel in disguise (the studio recording). I was happy because I could put it in a certain drawer now. Anyway, besides from typical harmony, chord progression et cetera, a gospel would contain religious lyrics. Maybe it does? Who knows ...

A ballad, on the other hand, is a narrative poem. So BOTW, in contrary to e. g. The Boxer or Keep The Customer Satisfied, is not a ballad, as it describes merely a feeling (rather than telling a story). You still want to specify the type of music (folk ballad, rock ballad, or, well, gospel ballad, which it is not).

ad Amazing Grace. That one was indeed written as hymn. But in a time, when Nobody spoke of gospel music. And while the tune might (emphasize this: might) have its roots in a slave song, it also qualifies as classic Scottish tune, since it has become very popular also as a bagpipe tune.

ad Sweet Home Chicago: Jake and Elwood didn´t mind dancing polka to it, did they?

While researching for this post, I also looked up "know-all" in the Oxford´s. ;-)

Oops. I´m late for soccer on telly. Have a nice evening all.

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